Podcast S7E2 | Risk Management With Purpose: Gloria Yuen

TRANSCRIPT

Kimberley Cole 0:01
This is Risky Women Radio, a show that connects, celebrates and champions women in risk regulation and compliance. We’re here to share the insights on the biggest issues in our industry and hear inspiring journeys from our global members. Sign up to our newsletter at riskywomen.org. I’m Kimberley Cole, your Chief Risky Woman.

Welcome to the Risky Women podcast. My name is Ghislaine Entwistle and I’m a managing director based in Melbourne, Australia. And I focus on day -to -day on technology risk and consulting services, helping our clients both mitigate risk, but also enjoy the benefits that technology has to offer. I’m very excited today to be joined by Gloria Wen.

and Gloria has a very impressive bio. Let me walk you through it. So Gloria is a recent inductee to the Victorian Multicultural Honor Roll for a meritorious service for corporate Australia and is also the Gender Equity Award winner of National Australia Bank. Gloria spent about 20 years in financial services sector and she leads risk compliance and business transformation teams.

She continues to make meaningful impact driving social, financial and economic inclusion for underrepresented and marginalised communities. Gloria is currently the head of regulatory enablement and she leads the end -to -end delivery of regulatory commitments for the personal bank at National Australia Bank. She also supports Deakin University’s Leadership Futures Hub. She’s working with women on boards and as well with the Asian Australian

through various advisory and board roles. And of course, she is also the Oceania ringleader for risky women. So absolute hearty welcome to you, Gloria. Thanks, Justine, for the great introduction. Lovely to be here. Wonderful. So in today’s session with you, Gloria, today we’re going to be unpacking the topic, risk management with purpose.

During this session, we’ll unpack a little bit more about the journey that you’ve taken, a bit about your passion for risk management. We’ll talk a bit about what inspires you and of course your insight on the changing risk and compliance profession. So I’m very excited to get this discussion kicked off. So I’ll start with the first question. So can you tell me a bit about your career? Any particular incident or course of events?

which led you essentially to who you are today and what you’re focusing on. Well, I have spent almost 20 years now in banking, leading governance, risk, compliance, business transformation teams internationally. I had a lot of once in a lifetime opportunities to be honest, scaling a startup, getting banking license, be licensed, execute an Asia expansion strategy for a global major, attempted to set up conduct with FrameWeb after right after the GFC.

lobbying the launch of a new currency across a global franchise. So I’ve got to work with different organisations with very different cultural environments, you know, especially in different locations. So we always get to do a variety of things and make different types of contribution. And a couple of years ago, I was looking for a small change and decided to move to Australia. And I was sponsored to move and take up a global risk oversight role in a short term of time. And within the first year, I arrived.

there was the Royal Commission into this Honda and banking and financial services industry. And then a preventory inquiry to examine governance, culture, accountability, and predominantly the banking sector as well. And not long after, a series of enforcement undertakings with Ostrac, which is how a financial crime regulated in Australia in uplifting AML -CTF compliance. Plus, you know, that period, the COVID restrictions for almost two years, especially in Melbourne.

which had really changed and reset the risk and regulatory landscape completely. So, excuse me, never really short of excitement and adventure here. And in my current role, I’ve been really focusing on improving social and business capability in risk and regulatory matters, building and leading an amazing specialist team in the business. And because of my passion, my expertise, and also my energy, I also got to improve the risk maturity for a number of whole purpose organizations through.

a number of the board roles and advisory roles that you’ve touched on, and at the same time become a very visible and active advocate in driving cultural diversity and inclusion in corporate Australia. You know, a lot of memorable moments in my professional life. So it is really hard to pinpoint a particular incident that led me to where I am today, to be honest. And I’ve got to say that my family background and upbringing really had an influence on a lot of my own personal risk appetite.

I’m very comfortable being uncomfortable, just comfortable that I’m really good at being the first and the only in any room. I’m very curious and have grown extremely thick skin, so that makes me, I would say, a very effective risk and compliance leader. And also an entrepreneur at heart, you know, with big passions to serve others. I absolutely got that from my parents who have been wanting their small businesses for decades. So didn’t realize it was formative, to be honest, but I just do what I do with love, with…

focus on purpose and trying to create better outcomes for others. I love that. So many wonderful parts of what you’ve just said. I think the the passion that you bring to where you are now and as you say leaning into the discomfort is often where people grow the most. So that’s fantastic. Absolutely. What do you love most about being a risk professional? Well what’s not to love? I mean you can’t…

Risk is not just a profession to me, nor a quintessential role that you have to appoint one, especially in financial services sector. Risk for me is about impact, about people, about decision -making. Risk management is always about looking up and out across the horizon. It’s a great place to learn and be curious, to think up that box, to fix assumptions. And being a risk compliance person gives me…

immense privilege to build deep understanding about businesses, joining the dots, asking the unasked questions, challenging how things are done, you know, offering different perspectives, while at the same time really creating impact on people, be it customers, colleagues, shareholders, and other stakeholders. And the interdisciplinary nature and also intersectionality of risk management has been really exciting and rewarding. You know, I get to assess climate risk for asylum seekers in influencing policy.

or supporting people experiencing vulnerability and hardship from a product or process design perspective to leading into dissecting population change in Australia and defining the needs for future or customer cohorts or just simply influencing the control environment to improve workplace safety in an organisation that I work with. So risk is so relevant to everything we do, every role we play, every organisation we work with. So risk skills are so important in every aspect of our lives. And to me, this is actually very fun.

very innovative, very influential, and is intellectually stimulating all the time. It’s something that I don’t think I’m going to ever get bored with. And also there is an other additional benefit to it with the complexity of business, you know, heightened regulatory scrutiny, the growing importance of roles of risk and compliance across sectors and also in the boardroom. I would never have to deal with job or financial insecurity. You know, I’m kind of set for my professional life.

So can you not love being a risk professional just like. Yeah, absolutely. And as you say, as the environment continues to change and you continue to grow and evolve and influence it, it’s a great place to be in a great place to have your career. Absolutely. It’s very exciting. And you know, you started out in Hong Kong as a law school graduate. So and that’s led to obviously an amazing international career in in GRC and now becoming an award winning community leader and also influencer.

What is the biggest risk you’ve taken in your career so far, would you say? Well, it’s like picking your favorite child. I don’t have kids, but at the same time, I have taken a lot of risk in my life and especially in my professional career. I’m just a natural risk taker because I think I learned from young age that taking risks give me opportunities. So to be honest, if there’s a driverless guy in Melbourne, I would jump right in and drag you and drag my husband, drag my friends along. So you don’t have that experience.

And as I mentioned, I’m very comfortable in breaking stereotypes and, you know, inadvertently meaning that I have to take a lot of risks. And as part of this profession, you just need to be highly analytical, very observant, always assessing pros and cons, always testing assumptions, as I mentioned, always think critically. And every decision I make is about risk taking, is what kind of risk I can take. And I’m the first in my family to finish high school, the first to get a white collar office job, you know, the first to work internationally.

I operate and be my best self when I’m not boxed in and being overly predictable. You know, and Purvice have always guided me in how I’m going to take risks. So, and has led me to so many multiple, you know, wonderful chapters of my life so far. And if I really have to pick one, the biggest risk is the one time when I have taken a professional move and take up a second -hand role to Shanghai.

I put my hand up to be the first non -Mingling Chinese head of compliance and MLRO for Shanghai branch for Global Spanish Bank. It was a really challenging environment. The business was under a lot of pressure to be profitable as a condition for the banking license. We had to optimize utilization, utilization of debt holders, really managing the business goals and draw a very proactive and aggressive regulatory agenda.

where I got to meet the CBRC, PBOC, SAVE on a very regular basis. And I got to upscale my business mentoring, you know. And at the same time, quickly but accurately get a grasp of the regulatory landscape in China and also operating under a completely just and legal framework. And I took accountability on day one, you know, managing all erotic, ad hoc, non -prudential regulatory reporting, develop a new compliance policies framework, set up a assurance program, and I told that.

You know, it was still early days after China was opening up to foreign banks. So a lot of lobbying, a lot of sharing, a lot of learning on both sides. And at the same time, China and Spain were negotiating a comprehensive strategic partnership agreement. And at the time, you know, right after the GFC. I still remember the regulators randomly copying on a Saturday night, Sunday morning after I watched something about Spain in the news and then I had to be for a follow -up conversation.

There wasn’t really time at all for me to settle in and think about, you know, if I could do the job at all, you know, but I just have to get right on to think that it really matters. And that experience, happy in life, changing in so many regards, is where I had met my husband. We have been together for 15 years, happily married for 10. At the same time, the professional experience has totally changed my perspective of the role as a risk or compliance officer.

I learned about the important role of the banks that could play in any society. And I think fundamentally what I’m capable of. And that’s where I have grown, I fixed it and also gained the heaps of confidence that I can do anything if I put my mind and heart to it. So that opportunity has given me a lot of career capital, both network and also technical capabilities to further chart my own path. And since I’ve been exploring, looking for roles and opportunities where I can make a difference. So…

That is absolutely the biggest risk that I’ve taken, but definitely brought me the biggest return. that’s absolutely wonderful. And as you say, with people that continue to doubt themselves, how much more powerful we could all be if you lean into that discomfort, say yes first and then work it out later. How much faster we grow and succeed and influence the environment within which we operate. So that’s certainly inspirational. This episode is brought to you…

by Protiviti. Protiviti is a global consulting firm with deep expertise in transformation, risk management and compliance. Partner with Protiviti and face the future with confidence. You’ve also been widely recognised with a number of significant national recognitions here in Australia as well for your achievements. What do they mean to you? It means the world to me,

because not only I get to do what I really enjoy doing, I also get the reassurance on the impact that I can create. All the recognitions to me means more opportunities, more opportunities, more opportunity. You know, the awards are personal, special, and meaningful to me in really drawing greater visibility and also prominent on issues that I care so deeply about. And hopefully more opportunities for me to make greater impact. You know,

Being recognized as a feasible leader and influencer gives me immense opportunity and courage to continue with the advocacy for change and continue to do good and also continue to pay forward. And I’ve been very much involved with a lot of senior executives and board directors in Australia. And to be honest, I can count how many risk professionals I’ve met in that cohort. So one aspect, I would really love to increase the prominence of risk professionals, especially risky women.

into the sea corridors and boardrooms. I want to continue to do my part to ensure diversity is the norm in any relationship teams and especially in the boardrooms. And because diversity is so important as part of risk management and corporate governance. And that matters to me because I think I’ve seen, you know, the societal institutional imbalances that currently exist in Australia and beyond, in representation, in recognition, in opportunity.

You know, there are systemic imbalances actually hindering economic prosperity. Not everyone can succeed fairly and squarely. And there are also structural imbalances and barriers shutting off different perspectives and ideas to flow freely into decision -making tables. So, you know, at one point I’ve heard a quote which I should actually get the credit, but I’ll do it subsequently. She mentioned that if you’re not on the table, you’re on the menu.

So let’s think about that. You know, if you think about your leadership teams, your risk and compliance functions, or your decision makers in your organization, and if they don’t represent the rich tapestry of the diversity of your customers, your shareholders, your stakeholders, you are technically not effectively identifying or managing the risk associated with your business. And you are not meeting the needs and objectives, and hence, your customers and stakeholders are definitely underserved. And as leaders, I think we should fully value and recognize the differences.

And no one should feel excluded and disadvantaged for being a migrant, being a millennial, being a person of color, being a woman, or just simply being different because being different is so powerful and especially as I mentioned in the risk management context.

Now I’m getting frustrated and emotional because so much has been done, but there’s still so much to be done. it’s so true. And you speak to my heart. I mean, as the National Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Lead for Proactivity here in Australia and also an immigrant myself and a female technologist, I think it’s really incumbent upon us as leaders to make sure that we make a better tomorrow than we do have it today. And there’s lots of things that are positive.

but there’s a lot more we can do to improve the diversity in the boardrooms and also in the C -suite and how we represent the people which we serve. So that’s great. I hear you sister, just like, yeah, let’s do it. Let’s do it, I love it. So on that note of inspiration, where do you sort of source your inspiration or who inspires you sort of day to day to keep leaning into the discomfort? I guess.

You know, I’ve touched upon family, but at the same time, a lot of people really, I got inspired through my connections with people. I connect with people and nurture the relationships very intentionally. I connect to give, I connect to learn, I connect to progress. And that has really kept me going. When I get to see people in action, you know, I got inspired and I got energized and I want to do more. And I used to call them effective destructors.

which I used to call myself. But I think tempered radical is actually so much more suitable. And tempered radicals, if you haven’t heard about this term, they’re no betters. They sound no trumpet. Their ends are sweeping, but their means are mundane. They’re firm in their commitments, yet flexible in the ways they fulfill them. Their actions may be small, but can spread like a virus.

They yearn for rapid change, but trust in patience. They often work individually, yet pull people together. Rather than battling powerful foes, they seek powerful friends. And in the face of setbacks, they keep going. So this is a label and a concept introduced to me by my executive coach, Kuin, who is a dear friend and also a temporary radical herself.

And I’m privileged and very lucky to know a lot of tempered radicals in my day -to -day life. And that’s where I saw some inspiration. And just last week, you know, I got to hear that the Victorian Multicultural Commission are talking about social inclusion in foundations and art. And the same week, I attended an event hosted by Ursula, KPMG Global Mobility Partner, where we explore ways to make EAP, Employee Assistance Program, more accessible to people, especially in multicultural communities.

And her suggestion is to rebrand it as core mate. And I think, wow, that’s pure genius. And then earlier this week, you know, when I was actually creating this conversation, I was talking career journey as well, just laying, what an amazing career. And I was so inspired of how you have broken your ceilings, but being one of the few prominent female tabletas in Australia, but at the same time, continue effort, like, you know, relentlessly to create platform and access for other certified.

And I just got so inspired frequently, diversely, but at the same time, very organically. And that’s how I source my energy. That’s how I source my inspiration. And I would love to see more temporary radicals actually in the Misc and Compliance teams. So if you know of any, please feel free to connect them with me.

Absolutely, you got to build the strength in the network, right? Yes. As you say, I think gathering inspiration on a regular basis from multiple people as you do inspire me. And it’s great to hear your kind words of me as well, Gloria. Thank you. I think that’s great, you know, because as they say, more of this energy, more of this discussion and more sharing how others can sort of help enable careers being more impactful. It certainly makes a much more rewarding risk and compliance profession. So.

On that note, my next question I wanted to ask you, the risk and compliance profession has to manage and change to adapt to the technological places such as digital growth and entry into new markets. Also, customers wanting or needing faster, easier, more efficient interactions with their financial institutions. Creativity recently identified our view on the top compliance priorities for 2024.

that was shared in a recent Rescue Woman podcast. Bo, it’s key to get your view on all of that because the pace of change is not letting up. And especially with that technology influence, it’s changing the landscape sort of day to day really. Yeah, absolutely. And I think there’s all kind of new saying about change is new constant, but I think change is actually no longer the constant, but exponential growth.

And you know, priorities, yes, I think it’s overwhelming, isn’t it? You know, I guess being a leader is hard, especially when people look up to you as an advisor, as a partner or worse, as a solution provider. And when I was going through the priorities, I realized that the list keeps growing. You know, the more sources I’ve actually unpacked, I wonder how I can actually effectively communicate the top priorities to my teams, to my stakeholders.

How can I balance the present versus the future? And I also wonder how could I create and manage optimal section between risk and innovation while not putting any customers at more risk than necessary. And people, especially in the frontline teams, are constantly expected to do more with less. So while the list keeps growing, I always wonder how could the business sustain and cope with all these changes, right? So I don’t think we should.

look at what else? 15 is plenty. And what I’ve learned from the crisis and events is that, you know, poor focus or execution or doing more with poorer quality often leads to greater negative consequences. And for me, my current focus is on people risk or the risk associated or about people in the risk ecosystem. And especially with my passion and mission to really drive inclusion for marginalized communities.

And I think the underlying thing and underpins and really intertwines with most, if not all the issues at present, it’s all about people. And I think the industry, especially in the financial services sector and some regulators, have really missed an opportunity to shed more light about people risk. You know, you would have come across people risk predominantly either as part of human resources function or HR framework, workplace framework, or as part of ESG reporting.

And my view is to really focus on the intersectional aspects of risks and opportunities and think really differently, focusing on the impact, the purpose, and also alignment with business and strategic objectives, you know, rather than just focusing on what cause or, you know, what are the particular consequences that we want to avoid or manage. And as you say, doing more with less and…

staying true to doing things with quality, I think is where you can have much better impact than diluting it with attention on every sort of bright, shiny risk that sort of gets added to the radar. So that resonates a lot. And sort of if we look now into the future, how do you think the risk and compliance profession in the next sort of five to 10 years will differ from that of today? And what do you think will be the keys to success in that?

Well, it’s a great and interesting question because I hope that risk and compliance are still going to be fun, innovative and exciting. But at the same time, I hope the professionals look and perform fundamentally differently in the future, especially with the adoption of AI, Gen .E .I. and other, you know, technological advancement. I really like to see more cost -functional, intersectoral or interdisciplinary changes, which would inevitably reshape the

profession and we will no longer be, you know, kind of put in a box and they say is partners, advisors where, you know, the risk and compliance function become truly business leaders who can play our part with our expertise to make an impact to organizations or beings that we are a part of. And I want to really see a world more risky women get onto boards, especially large numbers of boards, as we mentioned, which play an absolutely essential role in the communities.

And of course, you know, in this world, AI, Gen. AI, every day I open, you know, the news, you know, emails, all the updates is about, you know, AI. And it will not play a critical role in shaping the team charm. And it surely is taking the limelight at the moment, but I just, you know, as a risk professional, there are other title trends that we should not lose sight on. You know, those are the blind spots that I think equally the business and leaders must pay attention to, you know, such as…

changing population demographics, public health, political definition or tension. There are so many, many more items that I don’t think how it will, I don’t really know how it will look because it will be driven by the change in environment and also demand from the society. The only thing that I’m sure of is it will continue to evolve because it needs to continue to evolve. And there are a lot of learnings from the past, absolutely. You know, especially as a remuneration.

professional as well, but I’ll be very, very wary and cautious of dissecting and understanding future problems with an old mindset and solution. Because I always varied mine that what worked well in the past might not work at all in the future. So my key take on the keys to success in the future would be, you know, continue to adapt, be flexible.

And also we have to really leverage our differences and first to be leveraging our differences, we first need to be very self -aware. And lastly, I think we need to train our muscles and our calendar to be more able, like, you know, to create that ability to connect. Yeah. Yeah. So, so true. Absolutely. And, and your point around AI as well.

working out what of it really influences the risk landscape, what of it is material, what of it is sort of more noise around the edges, I think being curious, but not also getting sucked into some of these risks so heavily that we actually lose some perspective. So the balance between enjoying innovation, but doing it in a way that doesn’t expose organizations to dramatically different levels of risk are quite key in the mix. So that resonates. Absolutely.

I’m one of the addicts to ChachiBT in Australia. That’s one of the models that I use every day. You know, even in preparation of this conversation, I just talk to, you know, a virtual person, basically. It’s a friend, it’s a partner, it’s a boss. You know, ChachiBT is really everything to me. And, you know, from a risk perspective, how am I going to disassociate with my interconnectedness and also in…

well, dependency on, you know, and app to really be effective in performing on a day -to -day basis. So again, with all the technological advancement, there is always opportunity, but at the same time, there’s also waiting. Yeah, yeah. Well said, well said. And so that we look at it from a personal perspective, Gloria, where do you see yourself then in five to 10 years as this landscape shift? I am very, very optimistic about the future. I would…

you know, no one will know, right? And I do always seek out opportunities where I can make an impact. Currently, my head and heart are really thinking about a bigger international role or a few additional board roles where I can connect differently to give, to learn, and to move as a fun engine. In particular, I’ve been exploring, you know, netball women in sports generally because where I can support international growth of the sports, but at the same time really elevating leadership, especially in Australia, and at the same time really drive

social inclusion, mobility, accessibility for younger girls, women with culturally or racially marginalized backgrounds. And I think that’s a big opportunity. And on the side, I guess achievement, maybe I can possibly get that boy into Olympics in 2032. Wonderful. Love a party goal. Well, if I think about it, even in the longer term, I would see myself hosting hot pot and mahjong garden party in the government house.

being the first Asian governor of Victoria and just laying you’ll be in all the parties. I love that, Gloria. That’s fantastic. And you’ve got a dream big and you’ve got to work towards it. And with your track record of leaning into discomfort, I have no doubt that you’ll achieve both of those goals. And I think the intersection of women in sport as well as an area that definitely needs a lot of work from representing marginalized communities as well. So it’s really good to see your passion not only play out to the benefit of.

for corporate Australia, but also for, as you say, those little girls that play the sport. At netball or cricket or basketball, whatever it may be. So that’s fantastic. So I’ve got a couple of rapid fire round questions for you just to close us out. So the first one is what’s the most important trait a Chief Riffs Officer should have? Well, as I really touched on, ability to connect. You know, connect with people.

all the stakeholders, the colleagues, team members, shareholders, stakeholders, regulators. The ability to connect will place a big limitation on how anyone will execute and deliver in the future, in my opinion. Yeah, that really human -centric quality, that’s fantastic. And second one, what is your top priority for the year ahead? Try to maintain a positive outlook while we face into the current economic environment.

especially impacting the most vulnerable and marginalized communities, continue to support others in every possible way. And as I mentioned, try to chart my path into getting into one of those sports or natural board. So I believe, I still believe the importance of the role of governance in creating societal change. Now, I love that. That’s great. And then lastly, what is the one book that you would recommend to all up and coming leaders in risk and compliance to read?

I love reading Descent and Judgment, so I don’t call them books. But at the same time, one book that really helped me is Dare to Leap, because I think leadership is key and it’s always going to start with oneself. But from a risk and compliance perspective, my all -time favorite is Factfulness by Hans Rosling. If you haven’t read it, please read it. It’s a book all about assumptions.

Well, I love that. That’s really important, you know, know about what assumptions we take in everyday life and why we take them. And also having recently schooled up a little bit more on conscious and unconscious biases from a diversity and inclusion perspective, I had realized there was 109 different bias categories and how many of them that we consciously or unconsciously lean into.

every day of our existence. I think there’s a lot of upskilling that people should generally do and be better leaders for it. So there’s a great recommendation. Yes, if I have a magic wand, I’m definitely going to remove all biases and reset humanity. Yeah, that would be good. To be able to see what kind of live we’re going to live in.

Yeah, exactly. Like those power restarts on your computer will just hit that button and see the better existence that we all have as a result. Yes. What we could achieve without bias. That’s great. it’s been an absolute pleasure, Gloria. I could have these conversations many times over and maybe next time over a glass of wine. I’m sure those listening to this have enjoyed it. I hope they take away some of the passion and the enthusiasm that you’ve shared with us today.

And thank you sincerely once again for joining us on the Risky Women podcast.

Thanks again for having me. It’s been an absolute pleasure.

Kimberley Cole 32;07
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