Podcast S6E9 | Exploring DAO: The Future of Governance & Compliance with Chrissy Hill

TRANSCRIPT

Kimberley Cole 0:01
This is Risky Women Radio, a show that connects, celebrates and champions women in risk regulation and compliance. We’re here to share the insights on the biggest issues in our industry and hear inspiring journeys from our global members. Sign up to our newsletter at riskywomen.org. I’m Kimberley Cole, your Chief Risky Woman.

Kimberley Cole 0:25
Welcome to Risky Women Radio. Today’s risky woman is Chrissy Hill and we are going to delve into DAO. So I wonder how many of our audience will know what DAO is, as it was a very new topic for me. And it’s really at the cutting edge of change in governance and compliance thinking, given the technology advancements that we’re seeing around blockchain, the metaverse Web3 and so many more areas. So Chrissy joins us to give us a little starter I would say, into DAO’s or decentralized autonomous organizations. But before we get into that interesting topic, let me tell you a little bit about Chrissy Hill. She has worked for four great British names, Linklaters, Barclays Capital, the former UK Prime Minister Tony Blair and Dr. Gavin Wood, originally from Charleston, South Carolina, so you’re gonna just love her accent. She moved to London in 2002. And over the past 20 years has gained broad exposure across the global legal, regulatory, investments, banking, charity, not for profit, and now Web3 sectors. She’s currently the general counsel and the first female member of the C suite at Parity Technologies, which is a leading contributor to the Polkadot ecosystem. She was recently recognized as a global top 100 Women of the future in emerging tech, which is just fabulous recognition of Chrissy as a leader and a trailblazer in the emerging tech space. So first, let me outline a few of the achievements that I know about. And then we’re going to hear from Chrissy about her career journey. So what I have uncovered is that you are an innovation champion with a really unique and broad experience. Some of the highlights are navigating new laws and regulations, as the general counsel for the leading contributor at Polkadot, and Polkadot is a blockchain of blockchains and was created by the computer scientists who coined the term Web3, I’m really looking forward to hearing a bit more about that, serving as an advisory board member for a visionary Web3 company focused on ethical commodities, and that also boasts an inspirational female co founder. And you also supported a former world leader for almost a decade as COO and General Counsel. And you set the standard in advisory compliance pre during and post financial crisis steering evolving teams at Barclays Capital, including after the Lehman acquisition. I think there are many, many more so welcome, Chrissy!

Chrissy Hill 3:19
Thank you so much for having me. I must say I am quite chuffed as the British would say to be considered a risky woman.

Kimberley Cole 3:27
Excellent. Excellent. So I’ve given a few highlights but walk us through your incredible career history to date.

Chrissy Hill 3:36
Well, I would certainly say that I would not have sat down to write out this career journey that I have embarked upon. I have just had an open mind at every point along the way. And a real philosophy of striking out and wanting to be on the forefront of law and regulation. It’s something that I always knew I would do in terms of a profession going into the law. My dad was a lawyer, my brother, my sister-in-law, cousins, my grandpa was a magistrate, things like that. So I figured it was genetic. Why fight nature. I also knew, though, that I wanted to strike out from South Carolina, strike out from the United States then strike out from Linklaters into compliance. It’s always about striking out and trying new things and finding that frontier. And I think that’s one of the golden threads that has led me down this particular journey. And again, it wasn’t necessarily intentional, it was more being receptive to what was happening at the time in my life.

Kimberley Cole 4:46
Really interesting. So you started at Linklaters, but then you’ve worked at Barclays. And then you also had an amazing time with working with Tony Blair, which I’d love to hear more about. So give us a bit more color around that.

Chrissy Hill 5:02
Well, I graduated from law school from Georgetown in 2002 to go work for Linklaters. And they gave me the option to start in London, Hong Kong or New York. And I had a bit of a Goldilocks moment where Hong Kong was too far. New York was too close. And London seemed just right. So I started out as an equity and debt markets lawyer, so very much corporate law back in those heady days of the early 2000s. But quickly realized that that was not necessarily the best fit for me for a variety of reasons and wanted to try something new. And compliance was just starting to take off pre financial crisis, because of Enron and Sarbanes Oxley in the States. So I received this job offer from Barclays Capital in compliance, and I called my alumni Career Services Advisor back at Georgetown, who had also been my boss, her name’s Marilyn Tucker, and she’s phenomenal. And I was like, What is this? And she was like, well, people are still figuring it out. But because of Sarbanes Oxley, because of Enron, we’re starting to see private practice lawyers move into compliance and in house to give it a go, what do you have to lose? And I embarked upon that, and certainly, no one wanted the financial crisis to happen. But two years later, compliance became a very different thing because of the financial crisis. So that was my first experience of being, again, open to taking some of the experience from private practice and then really being where the rubber meets the road, and applying those concepts that we talked about in a law firm, but in reality with people with real assets and trying to make it work. So that is my first foray and journey into something new, which then helped me make contacts and also left me with an open mind to then take that job with Mr. Blair, which as an American, was a fantastic opportunity. Obviously, you know, I don’t have the political leanings that Brits would have one way or the other when looking at that particular opportunity. But it arose kind of out of the blue. And I thought, again, why not? What do I have to lose? And how many people have the opportunity to help support a former UK Prime Minister as they’re doing something completely new after being in office?

Kimberley Cole 7:38
And what was that role, because that was with the…

Chrissy Hill 7:42
Well, it became the Tony Blair Institute in 2016. When I started in 2013, it was Tony Blair Associates, which was an FCA regulated entity, which is where my compliance background came into really good stead, and also where my legal background was really useful. And then over the years, that particular entity was shut down. And there was the first merger of its kind in the UK of commercial assets and charitable assets into a not for profit entity, which is something that went by all the various regulators, etc. And that was exciting to be a part of from a legal perspective. And then the institute was created. And over my time there, almost a decade, we went from about 25 people, and about six or seven countries, to over 500 and about 37 countries. So it was an amazing amount of growth over that time, the Institute focused on two main things. One was policy. So looking at what governments could be delivering in particular policy areas like countering extremism, or economics, or tech for development, and then a sort of consulting arm that actually had individuals who would sit in the offices of presidents, prime ministers and other government officials, in countries to help them deliver their agendas. So it was exciting. It was all over the world. And it felt like we were really making a difference in terms of delivering change that impacted people’s lives, which again, set me up for my next move into Web3, because I feel like that’s a continuation again, of working on something that will fundamentally impact people’s lives on a day to day basis in a positive way, which is all centered around transparency, security, inclusivity, which are values that are really important to me.

Kimberley Cole 9:52
I love the diversity of how you’ve navigated through all of these different areas and obviously as you say there’s common strands that you’re drawing on. And obviously, a lot of different areas that you’re using the skills that you had. So I think that’s an amazing lesson that people can take away that they could also bring into their own ambitions or their own ideas of how they want their career to go. So…

Chrissy Hill 10:17
I think giving yourself credit about being agile, and having some fundamental skills, I will always be appreciative of my time at Linklaters, because I acquired such foundational skills that set me up to be successful, to know what hard work looks like to be able to put in the time, both mentally but also physically, in order to complete something. And I think that skill set translates really well across any number of professions. Because one of the things that you hear is delivery, can you deliver. And sometimes, I think people either think they can’t, or they try for 100%. And sometimes 80/20 is okay. And actually, what I love about the area I’m in now, is iteration is so important, and it’s actually expected, and that iteration gets you to the right place.

Kimberley Cole 11:15
Some maybe tell us a bit more about your role now, in terms of what that is, and what you’re kind of doing in that role today?

Chrissy Hill 11:24
Well, I’m still figuring it out. I think anyone in this space in the legal and regulatory side of things is probably feeling the same, because the regulatory pace has just been breakneck for quite some time now. And I joined 18 months ago. And again, it was because I was looking for the frontier of law and regulation. And boy, oh, boy, I would say be careful what you wish for, because I sure got it. And it’s been wonderful to focus on two main areas. One is the bread and butter of being a general counsel for a software developer, because in the end Parity Technologies is developing software for a protocol. And that protocol is Polkadot, which is a blockchain of blockchains. There’s different terminology that is used in these contexts. And I think the best way to explain what Parity does, because I think this is probably a good time, because people are probably wondering what’s blockchain? And oh, my gosh, what’s a blockchain of blockchains?

Chrissy Hill 11:29
Exactly.

Chrissy Hill 11:31
So I’ll just maybe do a quick sidebar, tell a little story about what blockchain is, and what Parity does. So blockchain is a distributed ledger. So basically, think of your ledger back in the day where you would write down from an accounting perspective, facts and figures to help you keep up with your expenditure, or whatever it may be. So this is something that is online. And obviously, it is a lot more complicated than that. But essentially, by taking this online, it becomes immutable, which means you can’t change it. And also very secure because of cryptography. And funnily enough, Blockchain first kind of came into existence, because a bunch of lawyers wanted to date and timestamp some of the documents that they were working on. And they wanted to be absolutely confident that it couldn’t be tampered with. So that’s actually one of the first use cases way back in the day. Again, it has evolved a great deal. And there are so many use cases now that it’s only limited by the imagination. But what Parity does is it builds the infrastructure necessary for blockchain to develop and be used. And so if you think about it, like the subway system in New York, there are the tunnels, the tracks, the trains, and off that subway system, there are various stops, it could be Broadway, be somewhere in Brooklyn, it could be somewhere Uptown, Midtown, wherever it may be. So what we build at Parity, we build the track, the train, the tunnel, and the stops would be something like crypto or NFTs, or gaming or ethical commodities, or something related to music rights, or health records or voting. And we could go on and on about the different use cases for this technology. Another analogy is like the fiber optics that you use when you’re calling people. There is that infrastructure there that allows people to speak to one another. And so when you’re a general counsel of a company like that, you’re focusing on some really bread and butter things like IP, like data privacy. And we’re open source, which means everything that we do is available to the public. And so there’s a certain amount of housekeeping that goes along with making sure that everything is available to everyone to use and collaborate on. So that is part one of my job. And then the second part of my job is following this regulatory pace around the world, which is just taking shape in most jurisdictions literally happening on a day by day basis, and trying to make sure that we stay in compliance with that, and that we are in the room when these new laws are being developed to ensure that regulation does not stifle innovation, and that it’s positive regulation for all parties.

Kimberley Cole 15:51
Interesting. So yeah, I think you’ve summarized that really well, because I was going to ask what was that sort of impact of your role? But I think that’s actually quite clear. So as I said, it’s been a really diverse career. So what do you think, have been some of those sort of risks that you’ve taken along the way? And do you feel that they’ve paid off?

Chrissy Hill 16:08
I am very happy with where I am right now in my journey. And so I feel like the risks I have taken have paid off, sometimes in ways I did not anticipate at the time. And I think, when I left the United States, I intended only to be away for two years. So I kind of woke up one day, and life happens. And I was married with two kids, and suddenly in this country for 20 years, almost in the UK longer than I’ve been in the States. So I didn’t realize that was the risk I was taking when I set out from Washington, DC in 2002. But I’m so blessed that that’s where I have ended up. And that is like a personal risk, being away from family and friends and starting a new and being an immigrant. So I’m happy I did that. I did not anticipate doing that. And then other risks that I have taken, I think were moving into compliance. That was scary, because I was a mid level lawyer and hadn’t been working for that long. And it could have been a terrible, terrible career choice. It could have been really tick the box. And that’s not what I wanted, I wanted to advise. But I thought, well, you know what, this is so new, I can get in there and help shape it. And that’s exciting, because it’s in its infancy. And so if I have an idea, I should be okay to talk about it and contribute. And I will have people around me who listen. And that is where I took a risk, again, not necessarily knowing that it was a risk. And it was reliance on my colleagues around me to lift me up to support me to challenge me. And I think I was so fortunate and have been in every job to work with the most amazing colleagues, male and female, but particularly male allies in very male dominated environments that allowed me to flourish, helped me flourish. And I did the same for them.

Kimberley Cole 18:16
And so if you thinking about through your career journey, then what’s the top piece of advice that you’ve been given?

Chrissy Hill 18:23
Don’t be afraid to strike out!

Kimberley Cole 18:25
Yeah. Which I think that shows on the innovation agenda that you’ve been on. So that’s amazing. You’ve already given us a lesson on blockchain. Now we want to delve into decentralized autonomous organizations governance. So maybe let’s start with what is DAO or decentralized autonomous organizations, give us that foundation so that we can then get into the details of that.

Chrissy Hill 18:51
I think simply, it’s a community of people who come together in order to do something. And those people generally have some sort of token in place that they would use to achieve their goal. So there was a group that was formed in order to buy a copy of the US Constitution. And they came together as a group from all over the place, and they decided that they were going to pool their money together in order to purchase this copy. So it can be something as simple as that the Constitution DAO, or it can be something much more involved, which is, for instance, providing a protocol in order to provide block space and core time and set up like a supercomputer for people to create a new version of the internet. And for those individuals to cut out the middleman that you see in Web 2.0, so they go peer to peer rather than relying on third party entities to deliver their services, you own your data, you don’t give your data to a third party in order to sell to another third party in order to make money. So there’s a real vision of the world that certain communities are trying to achieve, which is like a Web3 vision of the world. So we go from something really specific, like purchase a copy of the US Constitution, to something visionary about the way life and the world should work.

Kimberley Cole 20:31
And is it just that decentralized nature that’s different from traditional organizations? Or are there other fundamental principles around the DAO that makes it different?

Chrissy Hill 20:45
So I think one of the main things about a DAO is that there’s no legislation that is consistent across the world that defines what a DAO, it’s, there are bits of legislation that are popping up in certain parts of the world. Like, for instance, in Hong Kong, also in Wyoming, Utah, various US states, which provide a definition of what a DAO is, and a legal personality. But in most parts of the world, that doesn’t exist, because it’s a new concept, because it’s a community of people coming together. And in traditional legal language, when you have a legal entity or a corporate entity that’s coming together, in order to achieve a purpose, it will have some sort of legal wrapper. And that legal wrapper usually would be like a partnership or a limited liability company. And if it’s a partnership, all the partners, everyone who was involved will have an equal amount of liability.

Kimberley Cole 21:55
Tell us more about what is different about a DAO from sort of a traditional organization, you’ve covered some of that in terms of its decentralized, but what are those kind of key principles around a DAO?

Chrissy Hill 22:10
So again, going back to that concept that a DOA is a community that wants to achieve something, and there’s usually a token, which is something that is used for payments, or for governance, for instance, to vote, or for achieving certain jobs, or outcomes as a protocol, right? So tokens can be used in a variety of ways. But the fundamental concept is that you have a community of people who want to achieve something who have a voice in that community, and they can vote, and they can vote using their tokens. Or they can use those tokens to pay for things. Or they can use those tokens for other use cases, as they vote on those use cases as a community. So it’s like, what do I want to do? Okay, well, how can we make that happen?

Kimberley Cole 23:07
So who’s leading the way like, from a country or government perspective? How is this being defined?

Chrissy Hill 23:13
So around the world, there is not a consistent approach to defining what a DAO is or how it should be governed, you do see certain jurisdictions taking a lead, for instance, Hong Kong, also Wyoming, Utah, in the US, but not the US as a whole, which is a whole different conversation. You also see cases popping up in court, which are starting to litigate what a DAO is. And it’s a developing area, again, what’s drawn me to this area is that it’s not settled. And you can take different views on what a DAO is. And for instance, from a legal perspective, from a liability perspective, that is when it gets interesting. So if you have this community of people that wants to achieve something, and they vote on how they’re going to achieve that, and then something happens, something goes wrong, there’s conflict, it is inevitable that there will be conflict. It’s like breathing for humans. And somebody has to be held accountable, because that’s how the world works. The question is, how do you hold that community accountable? Because they haven’t set up a legal entity as would be traditional. They’re not shareholders. They’re all equal participants in this community, because for instance, they hold the tokens.

Kimberley Cole 24:39
And this has become such a kind of hot topic, because of blockchain technology primarily?

Chrissy Hill 24:45
Yes, it is what makes this approach to living, to making decisions, to governance possible.

Kimberley Cole 24:56
So maybe when we get into some of the examples that will bring it to life a bit more more as well. But obviously it sounds like because it’s so nascent and there’s so many different ways that this could evolve. It sounds like there could be several risks in this space. So when you’re thinking about DAO governance, what are those areas of risks that you’re most focused on at the moment, I guess?

Chrissy Hill 25:20
The first area is the fact that there is not a legal entity that exists to represent the DAO to represent the token holders, the community. There are again, jurisdictions like Switzerland and Cayman Islands that have put in place concepts, which are referred to as DAO foundations are DAO wrappers, which basically says, Okay, you have a community. And we’ll put a legal entity as a wrapper around that community. And it’s traditional. So if there is a third party, for instance, like an event company, that you’re having a conference for your DAO, and you need a caterer to provide food for that event, they can’t sign a contract with all the different token holders and all members of that community, they want one entity that they can sign a contract with. And that would be the DAO wrapper, the legal entity that’s been set up. Now that DAO wrapper, for the most part, will be tasked to enact whatever decisions the community has voted on and made, and won’t have a lot of autonomy outside of what the community has decided, of course, that DAO wrapper with its directors, and its legal and its compliance, and its finance, will be autonomous in that they’re not going to do anything that’s inappropriate, but they are guided by what the community has voted on.

Kimberley Cole 26:55
So that kind of still sounds a bit more traditional in terms of everything we can understand about how things work today. So what is the direction of travel in terms of Do you think those principles will apply? Or are there other things happening that are going to really change the way governance happens in this space?

Chrissy Hill 27:14
One of the fundamental principles of a Web3 vision of the world is this concept of decentralization. And decentralization can mean many things. But one of the problems with for instance, a DAO wrapper is that’s very centralized. And that is contrary to this vision of the world where everyone has a say, everyone has a vote, it’s resilient, in terms of the network. And in terms of way the system works, censorship is very difficult, because each community member has their own rights, they control their own data. And when you start to centralize inferences the DAO wrapper that does go contrary to this philosophy, and I think we’re in a bridging period, in terms of traditional way of working a traditional Web 2.0 world, which is what we’re in now. And just to quickly sidebar on that. Web 1.0 was back in like, say, the 90s, when you had Yahoo, or AOL, and you wrote something in an email to someone and sent it to them, and they wrote back, so it’s very read only based. And then you move to Web 2.0, which is more the Facebook era, Instagram, era. And that is where you’re able to share your pictures, you’re able to share your thoughts, your videos, so it goes beyond just pure textual, it is much more involved, but you’re doing it through that middleman. Web3 vision of the world puts the power back into the hands of you as an individual. So you can still share those videos, you can still send emails, you can still interact in the same way as Web 2.0, but much more under your own direction and not giving people access to your data that they can then on sell to anyone who wants to use it. And so that’s where that attainment of a Web3 vision of the world. That’s why I say we’re in a bridging period, because the vast majority of the world is not in a place where they can adopt Web3 technology for a variety of reasons. And I think you’ll see DAO governance exhibit signs of centralization and some of the traditional governance methodologies. And that we’ll move on until we get into a more widely adopted Web3 world where it is possible to be less centralized.

Kimberley Cole 29:56
And obviously things move quickly. So on that sort of future of DAOs themselves, but also DAO governance? How do you see that sort of evolving in the future? And what should people listening to this and their organizations be doing now, to sort of prepare for this Web3 world?

Chrissy Hill 30:16
I think that all of us should be thinking about the future of our individual professions. Because I think there are so many new technologies that are coming online that impact our world, that it’s not just blockchain that people need to be thinking about. It’s also Metaverse, it is quantum computing. And last, but certainly not least, it’s AI. And none of these different technologies are necessarily dependent upon the other, but they are all complementary. And they all make up this world that we’re moving towards. And I always when people need this to come to life to them, I always use the example of lockdown. We have this whole generation of kids, because I have a 12 year old and a seven year old, who spent a lot of time on Roblox playing different games and not being able to interact with their peers. And so they have a real expectation of an electronic universe that they have their individual personalities in, and that they operate in that they live in. And this is very familiar to them. And I think it’s that generation that is going to be pushing what may feel very, very opaque and uncomfortable to those of us who are Gen Xers such as myself, and that generation is going to expect these things to happen. They expect to interact on that level.

Kimberley Cole 32:05
And so where can our listeners go and learn more about decentralized autonomous organizations and the governance around and risk management areas?

Chrissy Hill 32:14
So I don’t think there is one single source of information on DAOs that I find to be particularly consistent, and that is through no fault of their own. I think that is because of just the sheer pace of regulatory development. So I think it’s important to find the experts in the jurisdiction that you are sitting in and follow what is happening there. Because if you try to cast the net too wide, it just becomes this onslaught of information. And I follow certain experts on LinkedIn. And I’m happy to share a list. But that, of course, is very UK focused. And I’m conscious that all your listeners may not be in the UK. And so I wouldn’t want to suggest something that wouldn’t be applicable to them.

Kimberley Cole 33:08
Yeah, interesting. I mean, it feels like it’s definitely a watch this space and so rapidly evolving that it’s really something that people are going to have to try to source information as best they can. And I guess as we start to see who are the leaders in this area, and what things you can learn from. So if you’re gonna give us a few key takeaways about DAOs give us sort of your top three things that we should keep in mind as risky women.

Chrissy Hill 33:34
As risky women, looking at DAO governance, my first question would be, is there a DAO wrapper? Is there some sort of legal entity that represents this community? I think my second question would be what is going on in my jurisdiction? So for instance, if you’re located in California, there’s the Ooki DAO case that was brought by the CFTC against a community. I mean, that community was accused of setting themselves up in order to circumvent the CFTC regulation. So it was ended up in a default judgment by the California court. So there wasn’t necessarily a resolution like you would see in other court cases. But knowing that, for instance, California would view DAOs as an unincorporated association as a legal concept is something if you’re operating in that jurisdiction, you definitely need to know. And then the third thing I would say about DAOs is that you really need to understand the underlying principles of the community that the DAO represents. Because if you don’t understand that, then you won’t be able to anticipate decisions that maybe the DAO might be considering. directions that that DAO might want to go in cautionary tales that you may want. Want to educate the different community members on? And then generally, just, it’s what’s cool about what they’re doing, if that makes sense, if you’re missing out on the philosophy and the fun and the vision.

Kimberley Cole 35:15
Interesting. So, you know, we started off saying we’re going to delve into DAO. I feel like we’ve sort of had an initial education, but I feel like we’re gonna have to come back for more knowledge and watch this space on this. It’s very groundbreaking stuff.

Chrissy Hill 35:30
I feel like such a typical lawyer, because I feel like I’m like, it depends on the facts and circumstances. Jurisdictional. I wish I could provide more concrete guidance, but that is both the frustration as well as why I’m passionate about the space.

Kimberley Cole 35:48
Yeah, absolutely. And another area that obviously you’re sort of at the forefront, so very interesting to hear. And I guess, for people to keep in mind that there are all these new areas that you can get involved in and that provide interesting opportunities for people.

Chrissy Hill 36:05
Absolutely. And one of the things I’m very proud about in terms of being involved with the Polkadot community, is that about two weeks ago, we released version two of governance, we call it open gov. So as a protocol, we are breaking new ground, again, in terms of how the different token holders vote. And how our DAO our treasury is another word for it. Governance itself, how we make decisions, who’s making the decisions, and it’s even more decentralized than the previous version, and I would argue, the most decentralized out there. So it’s quite visionary in so many different ways, which is part of why I chose this Polkadot community to become a part of, because it’s very deliberate. It’s very thoughtful, it’s focused on so many of the values that I hold dear. And that will shape the world that actually I want my daughters to be a part of.

Kimberley Cole 37:12
Excellent. So the Polkadot community, if people want to get involved or understand more, where should they go?

Chrissy Hill 37:18
So they can just type into Google Polkadot and DOT is our token, they can find a Polkadot wiki, which will go through all the different ins and outs and technical terms that you could ever want to search to your heart’s content. You could also go to the parity.io website. There’s a lot of fantastic material on that website, and also the Web3 Foundation‘s website, which again, there’s a lot of interesting videos, and helpful informational materials. So it is easy to search. And we’ll take you down a rabbit hole, which you need to put aside quite a bit of time in order to get your head around. But it is well worth it.

Kimberley Cole 38:12
Excellent. All right. Well, I think that’s given everyone some homework to walk away with.

Chrissy Hill 38:18
So it’s a steep learning curve. But again, it’s the future.

Kimberley Cole 38:22
So now we just have a couple of fun questions to wrap up, we would like to know, a book to read, something to watch, and a podcast that you recommend.

Chrissy Hill 38:33
Well, I was thinking very hard about all three of these things. Because, to be honest, I really focus more on these days, Audible and not reading as much because I read so much at work. And I know that’s horrible to say, I’ve been a voracious reader my entire life. But I don’t know something happened with lock down, and I just needed to break. So I actually picked up a book recently that I’ve been wanting to read. And I’m getting back into it. And it’s called Factfulness. It’s a book about the world and how we view it. And as I said, I’m just getting into it, but it has rave reviews. And I’m very excited to start to read again. Something that is nonfiction fiction is okay. Nonfiction has been the harder thing. In terms of podcasts. One of my colleagues, his name is Gautam Dhameja. He does these five minute short, sweet little tutorials on various Web3 concepts. It’s called block shots. And it has been a lifesaver to me throughout this journey into Web3, because it’s very jargon filled and that can be very intimidating to people can make it seem very opaque and it takes a while to figure out what’s going on and what people are talking about. And Gautam’s approach is fabulous five minutes. He’s up to like 85 or something now. So it’s Block Shots.

Kimberley Cole 40:15
Block Shots. Excellent. I’m gonna have a listen to that one. Something to watch.

Chrissy Hill 40:20
Something to watch. Do you know what I have been watching recently, and I absolutely love and I would recommend it to anyone. And it’s a Korean show. It’s called the Extraordinary Attorney Woo.

Kimberley Cole 40:31
Excellent.

Chrissy Hill 40:31
And it’s about a Korean lawyer who is autistic and how she fares in her profession, which is something that I find interesting from many different perspectives, and it’s just a wonderful show.

Kimberley Cole 40:48
Excellent. And then to wrap it up, what is a key message or thought or a quote that you would like to end with to inspire our risky women?

Chrissy Hill 40:58
Well, the quote that I always love to refer to, and it’s on my wall. And it’s something that is dear to me is by Maya Angelou. And she said, “My mission in life is not merely to survive, but to thrive. And to do so with some passion, some compassion, some humor and some style.”

Kimberley Cole 41:20
Fabulous. I love that. So thank you, Chrissy Hill for being a risky woman today and sharing some new and interesting areas with us. So thanks for joining Risky Women Radio.

Chrissy Hill 41:33
Thank you for having me, Kimberly Cole, it is awesome to be considered a risky woman and to sit down with you. It’s something we’ve been wanting to do for a little while now. So and I have thoroughly enjoyed this and hey, part two of DAOs. I’m happy to share.

Kimberley Cole 41:54
Thank you for listening to this episode of Risky Women Radio, be part of the ongoing conversation and learn more about our events and other programs at riskywomen.org